Re: official CD business

[Sven Rudolph <sr1@os.inf.tu-dresden.de>]

Dale Scheetz <dwarf@polaris.net> writes:

> I'm sorry to have come to this discussion so late. I have been somewhat
> busy with boot-floppies and such.

Same here ...

> On Sun, 19 Jan 1997, Bruce Perens wrote:
> 
> > Do I really have no support on this official CD proposal I made to
> > debian-devel?
> > 
> > All I've seen so far are negative comments from Debian maintainers and
> > positive comments from CD manufacturers. This is very unsettling. If we
> > can't muster up the will to market our product better we are destined
> > to fail.
> >
> I don't think that these negative comments were directed toward your
> intent as much as the design spec. 
> 
> I'm one of those CD manufacturers and I have real mixed feelings about the
> whole idea. I have grave concerns about an "official" image, mostly for
> technical reasons. From the point of view of a Debian Maintainer, I am
> concerned that this is a highly visible area for failure. We already have
> bad press behind mistakes made with the "official" ftp distribution.
> Casting those errors into an "official" image worries me. When I concider
> that we already have an "official" ftp archive, I wonder at the
> cost/benefit ratio.

I have the same concerns. Who would test this official image? What
would happen if it failed?

> > I've only heard from two CD manufacturers so far. They were both very
> > favorable. A third actually suggested the help desk, so I'm sure he'd
> > be favorable. 

I don't understand who should provide this help desk. Debian
volunteers won't meet the requirements regarding answer time.

Any company could provide such a help desk, and if they donated some
of their income to Debian I'd suggest this company over others. But
there is no need for a formal connection between this company and
Debian.

> >From bruce@pixar.com Sun Jan 19 19:25:22 1997
> >
> > Guys, we are losing systems to SLACKWARE, for gosh sake, because they
> > are marketed so much better than we are.

In my environment this isn't the case.

> > We have to grow up. We are completely broke and I've been supporting
> > the project out of my pocket. We can't afford the legal help to
> > incorporate as a tax-exempt non-profit. We can't afford to pay for the
> > master FTP server.

What about moving master to a university site? We needn't pay IP
there (unless this is different in the US).

> Second, I would rather be able to say: "I support the Debian distribution
> with 10% of the sale of my CDs going to finance the project." than to need
> to say "I distribute the "official" Debian image" and by the way, look at
> the web site to see how this benefits the project. I am convinced that
> being able to say "I donate to the project" would boost my sales and
> therebye benefit the project as well as myself.

(Probably just a clarification of what you said:)
The FSF suggests that on the CD-ROM package there should be a note
saying how much of the price will go to the FSF. The same could be
done for Debian CDs.

> > We have waited TWO YEARS for another organization to put up commercial
> > support for Debian and a commercial product based on it. All we have
> > so far are gold CDs, and one of the gold CD vendors has serious problems
> > finding the staff to service it and the funds to continue production.
> > Let's face it guys, nobody is going to bet their business on us. We have
> > to do it ourselves.
> >
> Well, as I understand it, there are at least a couple of ISPs using Debian
> and as a gold vendor I depend on it. There are several Universities using
> Debian, one of which sees Debian as long term enough to order, via a
> subscription price, the next 6 releases.
> 
> What would this group enter into as a business venture, and how would the
> spoils be distributed? I could imagine spinning off a small group under a
> business shelter, but dedicating the project to a business venture doesn't
> look very healthy. We need to focus on making a superior product that is
> marketable. The marketing of the product will follow.

I agree here.

> > Guys, this is really our last chance to make something of the system.
> > If we don't take steps now, the more professional Linux distributions
> > are going to walk all over us.

Even if nobody used Debian on i386 anymore: Would you expect a
Slackware/m68k? There are a lot of areas that will never see
commercial attention. And one of the targets of Debian should be to
satisfy these "markets". I believe that Debian offered the best base
for the m68k people.

Nevertheless: As long as there are enough people developing Debian it
is alive. We have more developers than in the early days.

	Sven
-- 
Sven Rudolph <sr1@inf.tu-dresden.de> ; WWW : http://www.sax.de/~sr1/


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